Nicebreasts: I definitely know that stripper-kara is a girl, since I know her in real life. Breedinggirl might be. Wonderwoman possibly. Willinggirls, I’m not so sure about
MTaylor: Asking for gender identification on the internet is just something I gave up on a long time ago. There are men that act like women. There are women that act like men. And most of the time it is best to assume that someone is gender neutral.
I hate to reference it, but if you're being Politically Correct, gender is determined by the person. It's odd, because I always thought it was decided on biology. Then there are real people with gender neutral names, and are frequently confused for the other sex on name alone. On that point, one of my male professors in college was named Kimberly.
MTaylor: Wondering is fine. Gender confusion is when you allow it to cross the lines. "based off birth" is what I mean by biology. Penis is a boy, vagina is a girl. When it is difficult to tell, it's Inter Sexual (I.S.). Then in that case, you have to determine a gender by surgery, and it's best to wait until the child is older, because it will present itself eventually.
MTaylor: There's plenty of people who don't accept things. It's an escape method. I have gay friends. I have lesbian friends. And I have a ton of bisexual friends. None of them claim to be a different gender than what they are.
Azrael: One warning Nicebreasts, keep that transphobic shit to yourself. Gender is not decided at birth, it is a social construct. If I see any more bullshit like that I will ban you instantly.
Shinku: Gender is definitely biological by definition. I'm a male. If I feel like a female on the inside, that doesn't make me a female. Mainly because I can't say I feel like a female on the inside. Logically, how do I know what females feel like on the inside to compare? How do I know what other males even feel like for that matter? I only know what I feel like, and I'll always be the gender I am regardless of how I feel, because gender is biological and has nothing to do with me as a person. The problem is people using gender to define them, when it's just a gender. I simply am who I am, and while my true gender can never change no matter how much I try, I can change WHO I am, because my gender doesn't define me.
Azrael: People can and do change gender, it is a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do. All your birth chromosomes do is decide how you procreate, and even then not always successfully. Ideas of gender norms are nonsense. Transgender people are shown to have the same brain activity as their 'chosen' gender, not their birth gender. Stop throwing around ideas of definition or political correctness. Actual gender experts say you are wrong. deal with it.
Azrael: This site is open and inclusive. If you can't handle the idea of people being trans, or of equality generally, then this isn't the site for you.
MTaylor: It will be nice when the ability to change gender is 100% biologically driven. I have no problem with people changing their genders and have even supported a transgender woman on her quest to become so. Eventually the hormones and the side effects got too much, and 'she' had the reversal surgery and embraced being a man again. It would have been nice if she could have become naturally female. But it hasn't reached that point yet. Someday it will.
You'd think that anyone who likes Futanari or gender transformations on here would be open to the idea. Gender bender is one of my favorite story genres for casual reading. :D
Hypotoad: Such an interesting discussion. Im personnaly on both sides of the fence. I recognize that gender is a social construct with an amazing amount of diverscity and flexibilty . And there is also sex which is biological with the x and the ys and the male female intersex.
I think it will be great if we can move beyond where we currently have to define everything. Where your just who you are and it doesnt require a special name.
I dunno i guess that would probley cause more confusion than anything.
Anyways carry on! Im gonna find of pictures of tentacles i would love to play with ^.^
MTaylor: I think this sums up the argument and where it runs into problems: "The sex and gender distinction is not universal. In ordinary speech, sex and gender are often used interchangeably. Some dictionaries and academic disciplines give them different definitions while others do not." - excerpt from Wikipedia (not the best source, but the gender/sex argument mainly stems from this kind of point).
If you grew up thinking of sex = gender, then you are valid in your views. If you have branched out and assigned differences, then that's where there's the social construct. I personally was the former. You can't expand the building if the foundation remains the same. First decide if sex = gender in an argument (to that person), and then go from there. :)
Azrael: well it is an argument that has really been settled by experts. Whether or not you believe sex and gender are the same doesn't really matter. Facts are true regardless of whether or not you believe them.
MTaylor: I won't say it about the gender debate, since I support you in the verdict of what has been decided. But in other cases where there are 'experts', their so called 'facts' are indeed very wrong.
It feels very weird talking to you since Azrael was a name I used all the time on forums back in the early 2000s. :P
Shinku: Yeah, and there's always experts on both sides. I'm in the camp of "sex means gender and vice verse... unless we're talking about HAVING sex". So if you're born one way, that's final. But you can BE whoever you want to be. I will always be a male, no matter how much I try to change that, but WHAT I am is far from the same as WHO I am. You can be a girl and act like a dude, or feel like a dude. Even not all dudes feel the same. I'm not gonna be the bigoted guy to say "You have to change your gender to justify feeling a certain way". No, that's just called being normal. In that sense, we're all "gender fluid" by nature. We're not static and we're all very diverse. I can guess that I feel different from most guys given I don't behave like them, but that doesn't mean I gotta stop being a guy. No one wrote a rulebook down for how I'm supposed to feel or act based on my gender.
That's where I come from. I think seeing things the other way can be seen as bigoted. I advocate "Feel however you wanna feel without being pressured to change yourself to try to justify it. It's not wrong for you to feel the way you feel just because society makes you think your gender's not supposed to, because you'll learn that for the most part society is full of shit. Be comfortable in your own skin, and let no one make you feel otherwise."
Because, yeah, I'm feminine as fuck lol. I've gotten teased for it too, both endearingly and genuinely mockingly. But just because I'm male doesn't mean I HAVE to feel or act a certain way. No one decides that but me. At least that just seems like the common sense mindset to me.
Shinku: Note that's not a message against transgenderism, but rather against people feeling like they have to do it to justify how they feel inside because society makes them think "males think/act/feel like this and females think/act/feel like this". Because that sentiment is bs. We are far more diverse and unique creatures than that.
tt: I would just like to add that while I have my own opinions on the subject in real life, those beliefs are suspended for the sake of this website since there's supposed to be a bit of everything here for everyone. If I don't like or agree with an image then I'm not going to look at it. Plain simple
Azrael: Well, for starters there are six different sexes determined by chromosomes.
X
XX
XXY
XY
XYY
XXXY
Most people who are not XX/XY don't even realise that they aren't. Gender is a mental state informed by social constructs and personal beliefs and experiences.
Shinku: I once went to a shirt shop with a shirt saying there's more than two genders.
The size options were male/female.
But yeah the reason why most people don't realize it, is because it doesn't matter. Our sex is a biological construct for the purpose of procreation. Only two are needed. If we split via mitosis, we'd all be the exact same.
But hey, no matter how many sexes people think there are, there's no single mindset tied to any of them. That's what I'm saying. I'm not gonna say someone can't try to change their physical makeup. That's up to them. My advocation is the silliness and lack of common sense in the believe that our mental state dictates what sex we "should" be. Whatever gender people wanna say I am (it's male, btw), it's never ever EVER gonna change who I am as a person. I have no reason to change my biology to match my internal mindset, because our biology has no mental presets. We can think and feel however we want regardless what our physical makeup is.
THAT should be common sense, is what I'm saying. Lots of problems with any sex being able to use any bathroom with reported assaults going on in the girls' bathrooms. I find it silly for a boy in school to basically say "I feel like a girl inside, can I use the girls' room?" because that insinuates that that boy knows what ANYONE else other than himself feels like. No one can ever know how others feel inside. In saying that, it's using our social construct of what the sexes "should" feel like, to justify him saying that he's a girl. It doesn't work that way. It's from our overall PHYSICAL makeup.
Like I said, people are free to have their physical makeup changed. I'm just saying they shouldn't feel like they have to do it to match how they feel inside, because our mindset/feelings aren't tied to our physical makeup. Some guys are more masculine than others, some more feminine... but those also are things determined by society.
And if anyone wants to have a sex change to fight gender roles... well for one things gender roles are no longer being enforced, but also that's not how you fight them. A girl doesn't fight gender roles by trying to become a guy, but rather simply showing she has power by not following them. That's why, biologically I'll see men as men and women as women, but otherwise I just regard them all as people. I don't care about the sex of the person I'm playing a game with or talking to. Everyone's just people, with their own thoughts and feelings and mindsets.
And if ya wanna get real technical, we all start out as female in the womb. That's why men have nipples even with no biological purpose for them. We develop differently for procreative purposes to further our species.
Azrael: It doesn't matter how many are 'needed' or what your opinion of them is, there are more than two. It isn't about how many you 'think'there are, the science is clear. Gender is an entirely personal issue, and plenty of people do change their sex to match what they feel. It is nothing to do with societal norms, it has everything to do with what people want to be. You can say you don't care as many times as you like, you can talk about gender norms as much as you like, your opinion isn't relevant.
The idea of there being assaults in girls bathrooms is bullshit, it doesn't happen. Trans people have never assaulted a woman or girl in a bathroom in the US. Quite a few Republican politicians have though, the same group who lied and used fear tactics to pass their bigoted agenda. How others feel inside is totally irrelevant. If a teen says they feel female and want to use the girl's bathroom it has nothing to do with anyone else, it is about their own personal beliefs.
Nobody said anything about fighting gender roles either, you are bringing in irrelevant details to muddy the water. A trans man is not a 'girl trying to become a guy' he is simply a guy, and it has nothing to do with fighting gender roles. That is trans exclusionary feminism of the type put around by Germaine Greer and second wave idiots.
GC4588: no you fuckers are ALL talking about shit you don't understand. gender and sex are different. sex is biological and gender is social bullshit which will change within a few years like it always fucking does. one thing is certain, you are here now and you WILL eventually die, so stfu and just look at some fucking porn...and DONT get me fucking started on this shit bc both sides are putting up weak ass arguments.
GC4588: also, all nicebreasts said was that he didnt have nice breasts bc he was a guy. that's not transphobic at all and so you ban someone...who cares??? you dont need an account to be here and even if you did he could just make a new one...soooooo
Azrael: It isn't all he said, I deleted several of his comments. I didn't ban him, I warned him about his behaviour. You can't comment without an account or upload. And people can be stopped from making new accounts.
isthvank: so Am I the only one still wondering were the pic is from? I need more tentacle hentai in my life...... looks like mahou shoujo Ai style, but I didn't really got into the last few so that might be why I don't really recall it
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I hate to reference it, but if you're being Politically Correct, gender is determined by the person. It's odd, because I always thought it was decided on biology. Then there are real people with gender neutral names, and are frequently confused for the other sex on name alone. On that point, one of my male professors in college was named Kimberly.
Sometimes one can't win... on or off the Net!
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You'd think that anyone who likes Futanari or gender transformations on here would be open to the idea. Gender bender is one of my favorite story genres for casual reading. :D
I think it will be great if we can move beyond where we currently have to define everything. Where your just who you are and it doesnt require a special name.
I dunno i guess that would probley cause more confusion than anything.
Anyways carry on! Im gonna find of pictures of tentacles i would love to play with ^.^
Sex is the biological construct that we can’t change, those are the XX and XY chromosomes.
If you grew up thinking of sex = gender, then you are valid in your views. If you have branched out and assigned differences, then that's where there's the social construct. I personally was the former. You can't expand the building if the foundation remains the same. First decide if sex = gender in an argument (to that person), and then go from there. :)
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It feels very weird talking to you since Azrael was a name I used all the time on forums back in the early 2000s. :P
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That's where I come from. I think seeing things the other way can be seen as bigoted. I advocate "Feel however you wanna feel without being pressured to change yourself to try to justify it. It's not wrong for you to feel the way you feel just because society makes you think your gender's not supposed to, because you'll learn that for the most part society is full of shit. Be comfortable in your own skin, and let no one make you feel otherwise."
Because, yeah, I'm feminine as fuck lol. I've gotten teased for it too, both endearingly and genuinely mockingly. But just because I'm male doesn't mean I HAVE to feel or act a certain way. No one decides that but me. At least that just seems like the common sense mindset to me.
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X
XX
XXY
XY
XYY
XXXY
Most people who are not XX/XY don't even realise that they aren't. Gender is a mental state informed by social constructs and personal beliefs and experiences.
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The size options were male/female.
But yeah the reason why most people don't realize it, is because it doesn't matter. Our sex is a biological construct for the purpose of procreation. Only two are needed. If we split via mitosis, we'd all be the exact same.
But hey, no matter how many sexes people think there are, there's no single mindset tied to any of them. That's what I'm saying. I'm not gonna say someone can't try to change their physical makeup. That's up to them. My advocation is the silliness and lack of common sense in the believe that our mental state dictates what sex we "should" be. Whatever gender people wanna say I am (it's male, btw), it's never ever EVER gonna change who I am as a person. I have no reason to change my biology to match my internal mindset, because our biology has no mental presets. We can think and feel however we want regardless what our physical makeup is.
THAT should be common sense, is what I'm saying. Lots of problems with any sex being able to use any bathroom with reported assaults going on in the girls' bathrooms. I find it silly for a boy in school to basically say "I feel like a girl inside, can I use the girls' room?" because that insinuates that that boy knows what ANYONE else other than himself feels like. No one can ever know how others feel inside. In saying that, it's using our social construct of what the sexes "should" feel like, to justify him saying that he's a girl. It doesn't work that way. It's from our overall PHYSICAL makeup.
Like I said, people are free to have their physical makeup changed. I'm just saying they shouldn't feel like they have to do it to match how they feel inside, because our mindset/feelings aren't tied to our physical makeup. Some guys are more masculine than others, some more feminine... but those also are things determined by society.
And if anyone wants to have a sex change to fight gender roles... well for one things gender roles are no longer being enforced, but also that's not how you fight them. A girl doesn't fight gender roles by trying to become a guy, but rather simply showing she has power by not following them. That's why, biologically I'll see men as men and women as women, but otherwise I just regard them all as people. I don't care about the sex of the person I'm playing a game with or talking to. Everyone's just people, with their own thoughts and feelings and mindsets.
And if ya wanna get real technical, we all start out as female in the womb. That's why men have nipples even with no biological purpose for them. We develop differently for procreative purposes to further our species.
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The idea of there being assaults in girls bathrooms is bullshit, it doesn't happen. Trans people have never assaulted a woman or girl in a bathroom in the US. Quite a few Republican politicians have though, the same group who lied and used fear tactics to pass their bigoted agenda. How others feel inside is totally irrelevant. If a teen says they feel female and want to use the girl's bathroom it has nothing to do with anyone else, it is about their own personal beliefs.
Nobody said anything about fighting gender roles either, you are bringing in irrelevant details to muddy the water. A trans man is not a 'girl trying to become a guy' he is simply a guy, and it has nothing to do with fighting gender roles. That is trans exclusionary feminism of the type put around by Germaine Greer and second wave idiots.
-William Riker
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